When I first started working as an escort in this industry, review boards did not exist. The internet was not as widely used as it is now and I worked for agencies that advertised in the phone book or in local papers. We didn’t even have to post photos of ourselves in a public forum; some operator just described our looks and personality over the phone and clients took their chance at booking us. Business was hit or miss, but I liked the anonymity. Though I heard more and more escorts were using online advertising to promote themselves, I was late to the game. My old way of working didn’t yield me as much revenue as other workers, but it protected my privacy. And then finally the gig was up. I had to change with the times and start advertising online or I would have virtually no business. But I didn’t want a website. And I definitely didn’t want reviews.
I first became aware of escort review sites when I read an article about the Big Doggie debacle of 2002 and even then, I still didn’t quite understand what the website was. Upon visiting TBD for the first time, it looked like a confusing mess of ads and message boards, none of which I could access. Sometime later I found out about The Erotic Review, mostly from the controversy stemming from its founder Dave Elms and the various charges that were brought against him. Either way, I wanted nothing to do with either site. As someone who had already experienced arrest once before while working, I couldn’t believe any escort would want a detailed description of a session with a client posted online for anyone to read, providing law enforcement with another tool to prove their guilt in prostitution cases. Oh sure, the disclaimer stated that the reviews were for “entertainment purposes only”, but when escorts got “fake” reviews, they were sure to raise holy hell about it and complain to the site administrators to have it removed, which is a daunting process in itself.
Then I got one. A fake review, that is. Yes, my first review was a fake review. It described me as having blond hair (not at that time),fake boobs (I wish) and doing a session I don’t recall booking, but I couldn’t read the rest because I wasn’t a “VIP” member. It was just a fluke that I found it as I never looked at TER, but I was bored one night and there it was, linked to my phone number and email address. I didn’t know what action to take–I didn’t know if I even could take action. Then a friend who was well-versed in the review system told me I could write the TER administrators and have the review pulled, which they did. But that request also got me banned from having a profile on the site, either to place ads or comment on the message boards. At the time, I didn’t care much about this.
Then things started to change in my world. I started to hang out with more escorts and attend “meet and greet” parties for escorts and clients,where folks would talk about “the boards” (the discussion boards on TER) and ask if I had reviews, where I advertised, and how long I’d been working. Turns out I’d been escorting for a while but because I didn’t use “the boards,” I was virtually unknown in this community and thought of as a newbie, which wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. In casual conversation, other ladies would refer to clients by their TER handles. Some were even good friends with the board moderators, who wielded a lot of power. The previous year, several of them even attended the funeral of a hobbyist, a popular presence on the local board who used to write naughty limericks and was well-liked by many local escorts and clients. To this day, they still refer to him as his TER handle, never by his first name. It seemed to be a real community, something I wished I could’ve found years earlier before I got involved with sex worker activism.
I also started to get more reviews, unbeknownst to me as I thought I had been delisted. I advertised strictly for massage at the time (but did escort sessions for regular clients and those I felt comfortable with) and while my reviews were good, the numerical ratings for my performance were limited due to the acts I wouldn’t perform. I had no idea about any of this until a good client tried to post an outstanding review for me and had it rejected because the rating was not on par with previous reviews. He pushed through and got it posted, but not without lamenting on the boards about what a fucked up system it was. Then it happened again. A client that I had a fantastic session with had posted a review that was rejected because he had to find a way to prove that I was “really bi” because I don’t do anal, acts that could warrant a higher rating on the site. As per site rules—”An escort provider may only be eligible to earn up to a 7, unless she is also willing to perform the following during a session: Kisses With Tongue, Bare-Back Blow Job, Really Bi, Anal Sex, or More than One Guy. The addition of each offering will raise the score she is eligible for by one point,” with the best rating being a 10 for a “once in a lifetime” session, down to a 1 for a “ripoff.” So if the provider only does erotic massage sessions, the highest performance rating she could get is a 7. Same thing with most pro-domme sessions. Once again, the front page of the site states “everything contained here is fiction and is for your entertainment and amusement only,” so why have a rating system that scores higher points for a provider if a reviewer can “prove” he committed certain acts with her if it’s all supposedly fictional? Yes, I’m aware that they make that disclosure statement for legal reasons, but the hypocrisy of it is still so preposterous.
This got me thinking back to the pre-review days when you could refuse to perform a certain act that you were uncomfortable with, and usually, that was fine. If the client was upset about it he might not see you again, but you didn’t have to read about it a few days later. Blow jobs always required a condom (CBJ), deep french kissing (DFK), was reserved for clients that were super-cute, and Greek was rarely on the menu. Nowadays, escorts are pushed to perform acts that make them uncomfortable, all for the sake of getting that 10 point review. I think this blurs the lines of consent: are escorts performing certain acts that are out of their comfort zone because they want to or because they are fearful of getting a less than stellar review that might affect their business?
It’s not to say that good reviews can’t help an escort’s business, but much like the Yelp! review system for mainstream businesses, this review system has flaws. Fake reviews are harder and harder to get removed these days, stories proliferate of guys writing poor reviews to get back at escorts for whatever reason, and review board owners sometimes lower the review scores of escorts who won’t fuck them for free. The first time an escort friend of mine got a mediocre review, she started sobbing in her hotel room, damning the last minute appointment she took with the guy who showed up late and had to be rushed out the door, resulting in a bad experience for him. I tried to console her in every way possible, saying the reviews were an offensive, ridiculous practice and that she had dozens of glowing reviews to offset that last one, but she was convinced it would destroy her business. Another time, I sat having cocktails with three other escorts who were obsessed with talking about their review scores, talking up their 9s and 10s as if this point system were the only thing that proved their value as sex workers .
The guys who write reviews call themselves “hobbyists,” a term I had never heard before these review sites popped up. Some of them proudly identify with the title, but here’s the deal—there are “hobbyists” and then there are clients. Hobbyists are generally not good clients. They’re not the guys that we want to cultivate into regulars, the ones who we make a connection with, who treat us like queens. They’re the guys who want to see a different girl every week or two so they can write a review and get their 15 day free VIP membership. They make promises like “I will repeat” in their reviews, but they rarely do, as they can’t review the same person again, so they move on to the next escort. My best clients, my regulars, the ones who take me out on the town and spend all night with me, don’t write reviews. A few admit to reading them, but none of them write them. Sometimes these hobbyists go into shock when they see that a provider doesn’t have any reviews, not realizing that there’s a whole world of men out there who don’t read or write reviews or even know about the existence of these review boards.
Nowadays, there’s review sites for nearly every aspect of the industry—from Pro-dommes and subs, massage parlor workers, strippers, streetwalkers, and of course, escorts. The conversations that transpire among hobbyists on some of these review sites oftentimes range from junior high banter littered with talk about “hookers” and “how to weed out fat and ugly providers” to the nearly indecipherable posts strewn with acronyms (BBBJCIMNQNS, MSOG, DATY, DT, DS, FF, etc.) that even Urban Dictionary can’t always interpret. While most of it is just annoying nonsense, much of it is offensive enough to fuel the prohibitionists’ fire in characterizing all johns as predators who need to be punished. Earlier this year, one grad student from the University of Chicago even did a research study on the USA Sex Guide (one of the more detestable yet comprehensive review boards) called “Our Great Hobby” (Manson, Mann, Marro, Matvey), in which it was determined that “many of the men blame women for enticing them to buy sex.” While it seems questionable that monitoring two months of message board posts from anonymous users would qualify as research that properly characterizes all men who buy sexual services, it does show that outsiders are taking notice of these websites and using the information gained from them to try to take down the industry as a whole. (I won’t even touch on the campaign that’s littering the streets of Chicago right now.)
This isn’t to say I’m slamming all sex worker review boards. I understand many workers absolutely loathe the boards but I’m also aware they serve a purpose. I’ve talked to many clients over the years who’ve been scammed by sex workers who took their money and ran, did a bait and switch, or provided a poor experience. There’s also the fact that the spread of End Demand ideology nationwide has caused LE to ramp up arrests of johns, so they need to be wary of undercover cops posing as escorts. I get that these guys need to have a venue to check on someone and see if they’re a legitimate provider who will provide them with the type of experience that they’re looking for. I also understand that many providers find these sites to be helpful for their business, and that they provide a forum for them to connect with other workers. The boards offer a community for both sex workers and clients that wasn’t present when I first started in the industry. All that aside, they are also a sexist and demeaning forum for hobbyists to engage one another in locker room behavior without having to confront anyone face to face. One bad date on what might be an off day can potentially ruin a provider’s business, and most sites don’t allow any forum for rebuttal. Still, reviews and review sites have dramatically changed the industry in the past decade and many of the workers I know that have entered into the industry during that time can’t seem to live without ’em.
Good article–thank you for writing it.
In Canada, where it’s legal to BE a prostitute but the laws make it difficult, but not impossible, to work, we have hideous review boards that are major centres of woman-hatred. I don’t know of any escorts who like them because a man can say anything he likes about an escort, there’s no way of knowing if he’s actually seen her, and, while it’s possible to have reviews removed from some boards, you lose the right to be a member or advertiser when you do that. There have also been a few campaigns where a group of reviewers decided to post a series of highly negative reviews against particular highly-reviewed women in order to harm their business potential. I know of two cases where the women were basically forced to close down and start over again with a new persona, new website and work from the ground up, after years of success.
There is one board in Canada that calls itself a recommendation board. They don’t allow negative content to be posted on the basis that if you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything. While this board is regularly attacked by members of the other boards who complain that it’s impossible to get a realistic impression of any of the women from the reviews, the community of regulars–escorts and clients–is a really good one where valuable information can be shared openly, support and commentary is made quite freely and the escorts have good relationships with each other.
I’ve been in the business for eight years, myself, and, like you, started before the boards existed. I ignored them for a long time, too. It’s still possible to do business lucratively and well without them, but it’s hard to know how long that will be true. We’re expecting some major changes to our prostitution laws in about a year or so. If prostitution is de-criminalized, as many hope, there may be less need for the highly negative review boards. Time will tell.
Unless your a street hooker or pimp, there is no real issue in Canada – ads etc are legal as of course is outcall and huge mostly honest agencies most that I know run by women and no issue since only sell time not sex (no living off the avails).
Bawdy house enforcement varies widely – Some large ones in downtown Victoria for example regularly visited by LE just to be sure licensed and over age 18 that is all. Years ago they had to move out of Sanavich sp? a suburb of Victoria with nice warning by the Sheriff – but seemed welcomed in Victoria. Many collages with lots of gals supporting their education.
For about 10 years I visited Canada to escape the heat in Phoenix summers and was very active on the large TERB etc boards I assume still run by Fred. I would never visit an escort that didn’t have reviews with my interests and never saw any real issues from the many escorts active there.
There were some very bad boards – not sure they are still around.
Compared to the U.S. we would love to have the Canadian laws as they are now. Unless doing public solicitation on the streets (or bar or common areas of hotel) and kept to outcall in most cities, there really is no legal issues.
Not sure if you’re pro or con American “review” web sites, but just want to remind you and all men that post against our will, we are in America where it is illegal in any way, shape or form to sell sex, advertise, or even suggest prostitution…hell, even a happy ending is “Masturbation for Hire”! And until the laws change, I and most girls don’t appreciate men (not necessarily you) posting and pasting that we are performing illegal acts all over the internet on sites that literally have the word “sex” in the title! What’s even more frustrating, not sure if you’re aware, but 90% of “reviews” are fake, gleaned from our ads, web sites, conversations and even appt that they book and don’t show up for or walk out on, just to gather recon to seem more legit. Call me old fashioned but in my day, you put an ad in the paper with a phone #, if you liked her voice(and price, I guess), you went and saw her. If you liked her, you went back, if you didn’t you didn’t. I wish the men that use these sight’s would spend that time lobbying to change the laws or getting involved with legalization groups like COYOTE.
The reviews posted on those sites run by customers are the example of how escorts don’t have control over our industry. And its those reviews on those boards that fuels the fires of ‘end demand’. Those review sites are the means by which customers I’ve seen for 10+ years at a certain rate, everything protected, now demand that I provide unprotected services at that rate because some amateur is doing it. And those first fake reviews are a frequently used as a scam to get providers to buy a membership on those boards.
Those review boards and the third party advertisers have done nothing for our community. They never donate to any of our efforts as far as I know. They all seem benefit off the current system just like the anti’s do as in eclipse our voices and step on our ability to be self determined and to be in associating to organize for our rights. http://www.gofundme.com/litigate2emancipate
And I’m sure we’ve all seen how those reviews and the ads are printed out by the police and are used as evidence in criminal cases against us too 🙁
I have not found the review board hobbyists to be representative of the average customer. I first worked for an agency that would not book with anyone who identified as a terb member. They would not guarantee anything beyond regular full service – and the terbites are almost always looking for more than that. These guys seemed to want way more bang for the buck. They were looking for a far more extensive menu at the lowest possible price. I have met a few gems who were usually tourists just trying to hook up, but I must admit I do discriminate against the review board boys. Too much work and not enough reward, let alone the damage a bad review might cause.
I don’t have any reviews on those sites that I know of and don’t rely on those sites for business but there is no denying the effect I’ve experienced and watched others go through which is exactly what SL has written about in this article. Thanks for writing about it.
As someone who also began her sex work career (long) before online review boards, I agree/identify with pretty much everything Serpent Libertine says here. A very good piece.
I feel like I’m revealing my advanced age by saying this, but I never knew I’d miss describing myself a dozen times a day till it was replaced by ‘are your pics real?’
Caty: Seriously! There will always be tiresome aspects of answering marketing inquiries, but I do not miss trying to verbally describe myself on the phone. “What movie star do you most look like?” Internet advertising has it’s challenges, but I would not go back to the phone-book days for anything.
This is a great, comprehensive post. Thanks for writing this!
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback! I was a little apprehensive about writing this as I know review boards can be such a divisive topic.
Caty and Matisse, I’d add to your comments that the “do you have reviews?” question started to come up more and more as internet advertising exploded, just as often as the “are your pics real?” question did. They became a necessary evil at some point if you wanted to get any business working as an independent, at least in my city. I understand there’s plenty of escorts that have been able to maintain a steady stream of clientele without having reviews, but it’s getting harder and harder to do nowadays.
Maxine, I agree that “sites run by customers are the example of how escorts don’t have control over our industry” but I actually think escorts have more control over their business now that when I first started and had to work for agencies (many run by those same “former” customers) that demanded half my pay for every call I went to and treated me like shit. When I went out on my own, it was very difficult for me to adjust to doing my own screening after doing agency work for so long. Along with internet advertising, I think some of the review sites have allowed escorts to jump right into the game without having to go through that adjustment period of working for someone else.
I’m just lucky enough to live in the low rent boonies where review culture hasn’t taken hold, for some reason. I hear everyone else who’s free of reviews is high end.
Serpent: I read your piece as I was putting the finishing touches on my own that will be posted here soon. And I was so pleased to see it for several reasons, but one was the great cultural context that it gives for the pre- and post-internet world of a sex worker. I totally agree with what you said in your comment about how the internet makes it so much easier for people to work for themselves right off the bat, and how we can have a lot more control over our working lives than we used to. There will always be challenges, but overall I think things have improved.
Interesting note the chicago researcher pointed out, that the reviewers seemed to blame the women for their having to pay for sex.
My first instinct is to wonder if there’s a trait all the hobbyists share.. some sort of tell, a personality quirk or a body language thing that you could pick up on and maybe avoid? Maybe not, from what I gather all walks of life pay for sex. As I date I can always tell when a girl will kiss me or not long before the right moment comes. Mayhaps there’s a similar tell for the hobbyist. Is there? And then should it always be avoided?
I haven’t been doing this for super long but I’m starting to sense that there is a tell: the use of the word “gentleman.” I don’t think I have enough experience yet to say for sure but what I do know is that when I hear that word I tense up and I know I’m probably in for a difficult call. I haven’t heard any other girls mention this so I’d relate it to what they talk about when they talk about clients who think they can just give them a gift or a meal instead of paying, or clients who do a confusing back-and-forth about the girl’s enjoyment and exactly what counts as that (which I find impossible to figure out, even when I want to). For me it raises questions like, why is he trying to convince me of something? What is he trying to prove and for what purpose? Calling oneself a gentleman seems innocent enough and I’m sure one day I will wrongly peg someone who is just trying to be a nice guy, but what I know is that the use of the word “gentleman” is often followed by ungentlemanly behavior. My most recent and probably my starkest example is a guy who gave me the gentleman speech and then asked for unprotected contact (“but I won’t put it in!”).
It’s true that I cannot confirm that everyone who has done the “gentleman” thing reads or participates in the boards because not all of them have reviewed me. It’s also true that sometimes people do the “gentleman” stuff without actually using that word, which triggers me too but not as directly. What I do know is that there is a general attitude of “gentlemanliness” which for me automatically makes me think of someone as a hobbyist, and then there are the guys who don’t emphasize that and I think of them as clients.
Because of these two sides that I have found clients naturally fall into, I propose that we revamp the GFE/PSE dichotomy and associated price differences into a price for “hobbyists” and a price for “clients.” ‘Cause that’s what it really is anyway. “GFE” is meaningless, it means whatever the customer wants it to mean and sometimes it just means PSE for cheap. No matter what you personally include in your GFE, it’s the client who is going to happily accept it (or at least respect your boundaries and then decline to see you again if it didn’t meet his needs) and the hobbyist who is going to turn it into whatever he wants/turn it into PSE/push you on it just for the sake of pushing you. And I’m sure if we were able to divide it up this way there would be some girls who don’t even want to take the hobbyists (honestly I don’t think I would), and the girls who do decide to deal with them would be paid more for the trouble.
Of course, it might be very difficult in practice to charge different people different prices based only on whether they participate in review boards, and it’s totally possible that that would just make them hide the reviews and the boards from us. But, it could also discourage people from using reviews boards if they know that the girl will somehow know and charge them more, and although it could strengthen their community if they made it secret from us it could also weaken it because if we can’t see it then they can’t taunt us with it.
I actually don’t 100% hate reviews. I could see myself being okay with them if they happened in a certain way. This is mostly a thought experiment.
(Also re: avoiding it, there is definitely a difference between independent girls who can sense this when they speak with the customer and agency girls who might not speak to the guy before he’s already in her room and so will probably have to deal with this at least once before deciding whether to see him again and for how much.)
You are entirely right, and this is such a smart observation. The clients who comport themselves the best are men who would never feel the need to identify themselves as gentlemen because they know they conduct themselves as such and so it shows. And they live in a world where treating another human being decently doesn’t entitle them to constant congratulations and affirmation. Meanwhile, hobbyists (or guys with similar mindsets) think they’re somehow really good at being a client, in spite of often having terrible habits. Every hobbyist I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet thinks he’s god’s gift to prostitutes, which makes me shudder to consider what type of guy he imagines us dealing with regularly, if he’s the gold standard. It’s probably like the word “classy” in that it gives away the user as otherwise.
I love this whole comment. The idea of charging more for hobbyists is genius, and if it were adopted as industry standard it would have to, eventually, pull those guys up short and interrupt the fantasy that they’re singular, super important, and highly sought after as clients. Bringing them back into reality—that they are an entitled few in a sea of many, many men willing to pay for sex—would be a step in the right direction of disempowering that culture.
Yeah, I’m all for this idea. Anyone have any ideas about actually implementing it?
Omg, I’m going to be on here all night! I feel like I’ve come home! I’ve spent so many years thinking I was the only one who despised the “review” sites. I love this article, it encapsulates everything I feel about this business as a whole! I started a website 5 or 6 years ago called “Client Check” (.webs maybe?), in Fla. It was very basic and I didn’t keep up with it or upgrade it but it was for girls to check and write reviews on clients..mostly bad ones though as I feel those are the only ones who deserve their privacy violated. But after reading this, I’m inspired to revive it! I want to say I love what you and the writer said about how these “hobbyist” feel that they are revered but really, we are revolted by them! And I say the way you let them know that, the way we implement higher fees for them is to JUST DO IT!! Around the same time I started the web site, and I believe I touched on it on my home page, but I try to get girls to unilaterally raise our rates. I’ve been in the business since 1990 and the rates were 125 for a half hour and 175 for an hour for full service..and in 1999 I was charging the same for strictly sensual massage. And while I was getting away with 300 for the few years I was in a big city, my fee since getting back into the biz in 2007 is 200 for an unrushed, untimed session. And I’m considered pricey! We girls need to strike and unionize and raise our rates on point with inflation! This is the only business where rates haven’t increased in 25 years! I hope to connect with you and anyone else on here! You ladies are awesome!!
Totally agree. I can almost always sense a hobbyist on the phone (I steer out of those conversations as quickly as possible), but the ones who do slip by I recognize at first sight. Just saw one the other day. He strolled in like he owned the place and was sure he knew exactly what was going to happen during our time together. I wasn’t having any of his pink shirted bullshit and super lovingly discouraged him from getting undressed in the first 30 seconds because I have a whole incall routine. He was obviously embarrassed about that but kept going because that’s what falsely self-assured people do, I guess. So there he was, sitting as naked as I was dressed, speaking to me in extremely condescending terms, but I was totally on my game that day and was truly enjoying myself hating him. In the end he validated my judgments with a nice premature ejaculation.
Long story short, yes, I wish I could have charged him double.
Regarding good comment GFE is meaningless.
I was one of the 1st to coin the term GFE back before there were websites, only alt.sex.prostitution newsgroup with 300 baud packet readers.
The original GFE had nothing to do with sex acts but as I call it interacting with the real inner person intimately, lovingly of the spirit even if only for the hour and paid for the time. It can be still a human connection like with the GF in GFE.
Over the years its been perverted to mean often unhealthy sex acts etc. My interest has always been the more intimate side but not having to use a religious belief (like Tantra) as an excuse.
Great site and articles, I found it via the Elms article since I have a huge personal interest being his target.
I’m not so sure working from the internet has resulted in workers having more control over our lives over all, we should do a study on that. I’d say that because the internet sites, like the agencies, are all still male centered and controlled the internet has made who is in control more visible and given more control over to them as the internet has made access to our customers easier which is what they wanted. Now the online reviews are being used to coerce the flood of new workers and old ones alike into doing more risky services for less money resulting in the race to the bottom. I’d say its worse conditions now. But I always worked in the parlor setting so having access to other workers was never my issue. Its why I continue to work in that way today.
I see your point Maxine, but I disagree. Before the internet explosion, I felt like I HAD to work for someone else, whether it be an establishment like a dungeon or an escort agency. I’d actually say that the dungeons at the time were the worst…only one I worked for was worker run, the others run by subs looking for free sessions or pimp-like male managers. One notorious dungeon manager I worked for later raped several women that worked for him. The escort agencies stole money from workers all the time on “fines” for running late to running overtime on a session. I even filed a claim with the state for unpaid wages from one agency and was never able to get my money. I also didn’t know where I was going, who I was seeing, and how well they had been screening. Oftentimes, I’d drive to a call and nobody would answer the door…and I was NEVER compensated for that. That rarely happens nowadays.
So I’d say conditions are much, much better today now that we can work independently using internet advertising. The review boards are actually seem like a small price to pay compared to what I felt were very abusive working conditions.
@SL, I understand that for some indys its working out but we never hear from other types of workers who may employ others for housing, driving, advertizing and appointment setting….or newer workers…I’d like to hear from a broader range of workers how the internet has worked out . I had asked the researchers at the first DA conference to conduct these types of studies on our behalf because we have no good research on our industry really. Still waiting.
Great article about the scoring system and fake reviews of TER to get VIP etc…
I am the one Elms is now in prison for my exposing these things and allowing companions to share their experiences on sexwork.com. He will be released from prison shortly.
In Phoenix we have many arrests based on websites or ads that offer GFE or worse terms. Its a slam dunk prostitution bust just from ad and mandatory 15 days in jail on 1st offense.
Gets much worse if massage parlor or any two people working together – felony criminal enterprise up to 10 years in prison and some face 20+ years for “association” even if no evidence against them for any act unless they take a felony plea with probation – and a life time felony record.
Then we have the Church rounds ups – six months Catholic DIGNITY program or go to jail. Many of the about 100+ each time rounded up from ads or websites of private consenting adult sexworkers.
Canada is so wonderful vs the U.S. where I use to escape to enjoy the very different atmostphere with no legal issues!
In some ways, it can feel very hit and miss as a client. In Australia, it doesn’t get much cheaper than $300/hr, which is a lot of money in most people’s pockets. So, you pay up front, and the girl can be bored, lies there, moans a bit, resists attempts at conversation, and then bounces off the bed the second the timer buzzes? Or, maybe she puts her back into it, engages, and it’s a blast. And you might say, hey, maybe you’re her fourth guy for the day. Ok, but if I’m selling cars, or computers, or whatever, my customers don’t want to hear about how busy the day was. And so it is in a capitalist system. We entice our customers to exchange our value for their value.
The review board system seems to be a partially functional way for clients to make sure the girls don’t just pocket the money and then do the minimum they can to coast through (I’m speaking from experience, the girl was the most gorgeous and lazy twits I’ve ever met… I wouldn’t hire her to make coffee, tits be damned). It’s an accountability system. And whilst I understand you like it when your regulars seduce you (and maybe it’s the best way to get good value), it still moves faster than more regular seduction and requires an attempt to engage with the customer.
I agree that it’s a flawed system though. It’d be more ideal if it worked like a better business bureau type of system, where girls could register and respond to client complains whenever they arise.
“Or, maybe she puts her back into it…”
Does this phrase mean something different in Australia (I HOPE IT DOES)? Who in hell do you think you are? A prison warden? Slave master? “Put your back into it”?
You may legitimately expect her to act friendly and flatter you and to provide the illusion of enthusiasm/arousal. Part of the job, as every customer service worker knows. You don’t get to castigate her because she didn’t “put her back into it.” Into what, feigning complete adoration and lust and doing whatever she possibly could to get you off? She is not your slave. What would you tell your boss if he told you to “put your back into it?”
And $300/hour IS “a lot of money is most people’s pockets,” but so what…? I had to pay $150 to visit an optometrist for a contact lens examination last month. I REALLY wish I could pay for sessions with a physical therapist for my carpal tunnel…but I can’t afford it at this time, and I don’t begrudge the physical therapist for being outside of my price range.
I am unfamiliar with going rates in Australia, but if the going rate is $300 (I am skeptical…Internet escorts here in NYC charge as little as $120 last time I looked), then that is what the market will bear. Capitalism sucks and I hate it, but you are a hypocritical moron if you think a sex worker should charge LESS than the maximum she could get in this system. She is NOT obligated to be a CHARITY for your cock. She does not OWE you to go further “after the timer buzzes.” Should a seamstress in a garment sweatshop in Bangladesh work a little off the clock because the factory “has almost made the daily quota!”…? Is a lawyer obligated to consult and not charge? Should you expect your personal trainer to not say, “SORRY, but I have to make my next appointment, see you next week!” when you showed up 15 minutes late to your training session?
If escorts (or whatever sort of provider you see) are too expensive for you, then you can try to get you needs met with one of the zillion women around you…
…but that would require that you take the time, and make the effort, to cultivate a relationship with her, or at least to seduce her/give her a good time in order to have sex with her.
I’d not holding my breath…IN SUM: You suck. and I would never hang out with you for free. The ladies you hire should get Purple Hearts of Medals of Valor.
Adios, fucktard. This is the only free attention from me that you will ever get.
You are not entitled to sexual attention or indulgence from a woman.
This entitled, gross mansplaining comment made me want to barf. Your attitude is disgusting.
I have sprayed it liberally with X-TRA STRENGTH DUDE-TROLL SPRAY. I hope it dies soon.
I am in love with you Margo. Everything you said, all of it. I am giving you a standing ovation from my bedroom.
Miss Margo, I can’t speak to the situation in the US, but I have no doubts about what he says about the price of an escort in Australia being $300/h. In Alberta, Canada, that’s also a very common rate, with most girls being between $240-$300. Once you start to get below $200, the situations surrounding the visit tend to be sketchier, or you wind up dealing with girls who may or may not be trafficked. But I know that price can vary based on geography, as visiting girls from Montreal and Toronto tend to charge higher rates when they come out west, and western girls often don’t tour east because the prices they can command go down while the expectation of service goes up.
Thanks for that, distance. The rates in Toronto are getting lower because so many women are out of work – it’s getting like Berlin in the 30’s.
wow, you totally missed the point….
@ MISS MARGO.
RE: “Or maybe she puts her back into it….”
I absolutely LOVE the way you handled that!
Great post !!! Thank you !
Thank you so much for saying that!! You took the words and thoughts out of my head! like Beatrice said -I Love You for saying that!!! I don’t know what this site is, I just stumbled upon it but I’m so happy to see educated, intelligent, powerful, opinionated providers voicing their opinions. Those sites need to be shut down for promoting unhealthy activities. We need to form a union and take our power back!
You are my hero!!! What a douchebag!! Regarding our “high rates” (HA, see a comment I made above) I always say I’d like to eat at Morton’s every night but they won’t sell me a petite filet for $10! And, yeah, they are paying for something allright…the obvious, of course, ease, discretion, a sure thing or an unusual thing that they can’t get at home and most importantly, to leave with not so much as a second thought,,(like mistresses who might call their wives). They are not paying us to hang on their every word and lick their boots!! Unless of course they are paying a sub extremely well! They are entitled, self centered spoiled brats!! As if $300 is a lot of money anyway!! We need to strike ladies!! $500 an hour, at least!!
Thanks, Beatrice! xoxoxoxoxo
I am a mature escort who is very new to the scene. I have done a lot of research, and I am appalled by what I have discovered. Today I saw a review board encouraging clients to hit up newbies for a discount or even offer up for free just to get a good review. That’s extortion! Has the world gone insane?
This will turn your stomach. Gals from Eastern Europe were begging for reviews so that they can get some cash flow happening. Does a guy really think this gal is happy being PSE under these circumstances?
I, for one, would like to see a client review board. And no, I am not joking.
I totally agree! I don’t understand why some girls like these reviews. I find them insulting, degrading and repulsive. I think The Erotic Review helps a member ..I say member NOT client because it is my belief that 90% of these “reviews” are fake, gleaned from the details of our ads and web sites, emails and phone calls and even booking appts then not showing up or walking to get a peek and an address to make their “reviews” sound legitimate….go into great detail about breast size, nipple and areola, and pussy tightness! It’s gross, but again, I call it the Penthouse Forum because it’s just a bunch of perverts, cheap perverts, that have never and will never pay a dollar to these girls, swapping fantasies. Anyway, I DID start a client check web site called “Client Check”,(I forget the web address) but I’m a low tech girl and this was about 5 or 6 years ago in Fla and I lost track of it, never updated or improved it and it didn’t really catch on, but again, Imy fault. With this last run in with Sex Guide USA allowing members, once again, to post that I am performing and offering illegal acts, I think I will revive it. I’m even thinking of having all my clients sign a release that they will not post any comments or reviews, good or bad. This site and article has inspired me. I thought I was the only girl out there outraged, with dignity, class and desire for discretion. I hope to connect and get involved with pro pro groups!!
I really appreciate the exchange which is occurring here. As an over 60 guy, I only recently ventured into this “world” as it were. Having seen a whole number of means to connect in the Seattle side of the Puget Sound, I’ve found that my safest venues are TRB and TER. I discovered very quickly that while many of the review narratives were offensive, the connections to a lady’s web site were very helpful. As a result I have found a “client” relationship. The great number of very overt ads found on most other sites drown out the woman who may be seeking a client relationship. A vast majority of sites offering opportunities are frauds and even the two boards referred to earlier are not without problems. One needs “filters” to find his or her way.
I found it intriguing re. the term “gentleman,” as every elegant site which has an appeal to me wants only “gentleman” to contact them. Indeed, the term “courtesan” is now in vogue as a means to differentiate between relationships as such and just getting a quick GFE fix although most “courtesans” are clear to include a schedule as to FBSM/FBMT/FS/GFE at differing levels of $ “donations.” Only the full courtesan level is going to get to that most intimate physical sharing.
Interestingly a new entrant, who is the one who caught my attention, has a three stage meeting (sessions) regimen. It’s not straight to home plate…please excuse the metaphor if it offends.. There is a time of acquaintance to see if the chemistry is there. If not, then that’s it. Fortunately we have seeing each other several times and actual conversations are developing. Her site is tastefully done and alluring.
The review or board system means that I could venture out without going to places with risks or make calls to agencies while also finding a place for an “outcall.”
BTW, I think there should be a means, other than the current reference and/or 411 systems, for client reviews. I thought one of the boards might have such.
I actually started a web site about 5 or 6 years ago in Fla called “Client Check” ..I forget the web address and it never really took off. But that was my fault, didn’t push or advertise it much but I may revive it. The main problem I have with reviews is that they are 90% fake, so keep that in mind. We are taking a huge risk doing what we are doing, much higher than a client…see COYOTE stats for client to call girl arrests, not to mention the physical overpowering of a man to a woman, so I feel you should just use common sense and until it is legal, you should have to take the same , actually smaller, risk that we do. Call me old fashioned, but if you like a girl, you go back, if you don’t, you don’t.
I came across this blog that was actually posted on a Toronto review board. It’s so spot on, i had to chime in. The scene here online is absolutely degrading and sad to read. I started out working for an agency where each prostitute had a ‘menu’ that we had to fill out and provide to the agency, which then was published on our web page. Because of TERB, the majority of women including myself, went beyond what we were actually comfortable with providing (such as greek, CIM, and even BBBJ – some men’s hygiene is atrocious and yet we’re expected to act like its the holy grail and devour that smelly disgusting thing into our mouths…bare). If you had a ‘limited’ menu, you were probably not going to have many appointments because this particular agency catered to hobbyists, aka insecure men who are outcasts of society who find pleasure and seek false friendships with their fellow hobbyists on these review boards.
I work for myself now, and i’m often asked in emails if i have any reviews. I am reluctant to send them looking for my old reviews because the nasty details of our encounters are on TERB for all to read in their parent’s basements (ok… I’m speculating, but wouldn’t be surprised if this is the case with a lot of these troll hobbyists). The encounter a prostitute has with one man cannot be duplicated with another – so many factors affect the appointment and chemistry two people have. I think thats what most hobbyists forget- at the end of the day, we are people.
I believe recommendation boards are helpful for men looking to buy sex, but i think review boards are detrimental to the industry.
I am appalled to think that girls are compromising their health to please a client. Disgusting! Girls please stop this! I am a condom Nazi!! And you know what, men appreciate that. They may not be thrilled about it but my health is not worth , what do they offer, $20 more dollars?? I tell them not for a million! Make them feel ashamed for asking! I have cute sayings like, ” I wanna be around to play for a long time!” or “I use them with my boyfriend too”…which I do. The thought of putting these men in my mouth unwrapped makes me gag! Some of them smell so bad, I don’t even want to put my face down there, and I won’t! I just wanted to tell you I don’t think you should give into this ridiculous review world. We need to realize that we are not slaves, no one has a gun to our head, to do certain acts or to do this work! Get an attitude and self confidence. We CAN charge what we want, we CAN refuse service of any kind, we CAN raise the rate if we don’t like something they do, and we CAN change what services we offer! My ads and web site are ambiguous and sell more of a non specific experience so I can do or not do whatever I want. What we all forget , men mostly, is that until this is legal, they are not entitled to a contract of services! Hope to connect with you!~
Great article – My sister has been an escort for 12 years and for a very long time, I had difficulties accepting it. She moved with me to Los Angeles last year and I decided to be somewhat open minded and listen to her arguments. In the end, its all about individual choices that we make. I have embraced her and her lifestyle to the point that i give her my full support.
Great post…still relevant over 2 years after you originally wrote it. While I participate on discussion boards I do not accept reviews – for the reasons you so elloquently describe. Undoubtedly, this affects my business. Yes, I do this to earn money. But! my dignity is something I am not yet ready to compromise. Being spoken about like some less-than-human commodity just to pay the rent is not for me. (This is by no means implying that the thousands of entertainers who do accept reviews are compromising their dignity.)
I do enjoy connecting with others on the boards and thru M&G’s, as well as seeing what people really think (when they think they’re anonymous!)
We live in a review economy. All providers – from lawyers, doctors, plumbers to personal shoppers get reviewed. Of course, the nature of their services, and therefore the reviews are kept professional and objective. When escorts and other adult entertainers are treated with the same respect, maybe I will join that party.
Thanks to all who support us.
Many of these review boards have fake client profiles set up by the large escort agencies that spend the time promoting their own girls & slamming other up & coming agencies & independents. A friend of mine has an agency & tried to defend himself & his agency from false claims on TERB. Here is link to the details http://www.escorttorontoon.ca/warning-terb-toronto-escort-review-board-steals-advertisers-money-allows-slanderous-posts/
I believe the best clients not only as far as not having to swap any bodily fluids with (bbbj, bbfs, dfk, daty etc) but also to get the highest fee from are ones that you meet in person and introduce them to becoming your client. Guys who either never or very rarely seen an escort in the past. Clients who are “virgins” or “near virgins” to the biz. These are way better clients than what you find on the net especially review board sites that double as online escort malls with escort ads. I believe all the review boards are for the most part with very few exceptions controlled by “professional clients/hobbyists”. DFK hardly existed before review boards, even BBBJ was the exception to the rule before review boards however now it seems non-bbbj-gfe providers are the exception to the rule on the net and especially on sites that have review boards. We can agree or agree to disagree. The net was great when it first came out but the blessing turned into a curse especially when TER and review boards came into existence and gave clients a voice and so much power that they truly don’t deserve and are not worthy of. It is like they the client and not the escort calls the shots at least they do for the most part on hobbyist review sites. The best clients are guys who don’t go on hobbyist sites and don’t study review boards and exchange strategies with other hobbyists to manipulate and coerce a provider to give oh so much for oh so little. You want clients that are not poisoned by “professional hobbyists” who you can indoctrinate to your rules which are getting the most money for the safest and covered services. Clients with a lot of money who know there place and stay in it who you can seduce out of enormous amounts of money. The “professional hobbyists” interact with providers especially on forums and have the nerve to give them “advice” lol. They spot a newb and they are on her like pirahnas. They offer to trade great reviews for free or super cheap services. It is sad but true. They indoctrinate providers to their rules which are performing the most risky services for the least amount of money and that is truly sad. I occasionally use the net but I would never depend on it because I believe you are not 100% independent if you depend on reviews or are giving up so much for so little because you feel you have no choice because you are in a hobbyist controlled playground. The world is a big place and they are other playgrounds and avenues way better where a client knows his place and has little or no say and is not poisoned with all hobbyist B.S. Much love to you all be safe!
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