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	Comments on: The Commercial Dungeon Experience: Abusive Management And Exploitation	</title>
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	<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/</link>
	<description>By and about sex workers</description>
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		By: &#8220;You&#8217;re So Brave!&#8221;: Pro Sub Stigma And Its Discontents — Tits and Sass		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-1082266</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;You&#8217;re So Brave!&#8221;: Pro Sub Stigma And Its Discontents — Tits and Sass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-1082266</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] conditions in commercial dungeons and the prevalence of abusive management there. I agree with Serpent Libertine’s observation that “a lot of pro-BDSM people have controlling, volatile personalities and running a dungeon [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] conditions in commercial dungeons and the prevalence of abusive management there. I agree with Serpent Libertine’s observation that “a lot of pro-BDSM people have controlling, volatile personalities and running a dungeon [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pandora		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-531281</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pandora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2014 01:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-531281</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow. Just..wow. I work for the same dungeon as Skyler, who commented above. This is my first experience working for a dungeon, and I absolutely love it.

I guess we got lucky..our owner is fabulous. She&#039;s great at picking clients.  I&#039;m a pro switch, so I sub from time to time.  I&#039;ve never had a bad experience with a client, and I&#039;ve been working there over a year. She has no problem blacklisting any clients that other dommes have had problems with, though. And I had this one potential client who wanted to gag me and blindfold me in our first session.  The owner said, no way. She said, I would never let a first-time client gag and blindfold any of my girls.  That meant a lot to me.

She lets us do whatever we want when we sit in, and she encourages us to all run clips4sale stores and shoot at the dungeon. We only have to reimburse here whatever supplies we may use. She is very concerned with safety and hygiene. We keep the place very clean, and she teaches us about safe flogging, whipping, even medical practices, if people are into that. She never pushes anyone to do any activities they don&#039;t like or feel comfortable with. She&#039;s also very good at helping us brand and market ourselves.

I&#039;d been having trouble getting clients lately, and she had dinner with me and helped me come up with a ton of great ideas to better market myself.  She also had me think of the activities I like best, and focus on  those, in my profile on her web page.

It really sounds to me like me and Skyler are probably working for the best dungeon in the country. I think ours could be a model of what a commercial dungeon SHOULD be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Just..wow. I work for the same dungeon as Skyler, who commented above. This is my first experience working for a dungeon, and I absolutely love it.</p>
<p>I guess we got lucky..our owner is fabulous. She&#8217;s great at picking clients.  I&#8217;m a pro switch, so I sub from time to time.  I&#8217;ve never had a bad experience with a client, and I&#8217;ve been working there over a year. She has no problem blacklisting any clients that other dommes have had problems with, though. And I had this one potential client who wanted to gag me and blindfold me in our first session.  The owner said, no way. She said, I would never let a first-time client gag and blindfold any of my girls.  That meant a lot to me.</p>
<p>She lets us do whatever we want when we sit in, and she encourages us to all run clips4sale stores and shoot at the dungeon. We only have to reimburse here whatever supplies we may use. She is very concerned with safety and hygiene. We keep the place very clean, and she teaches us about safe flogging, whipping, even medical practices, if people are into that. She never pushes anyone to do any activities they don&#8217;t like or feel comfortable with. She&#8217;s also very good at helping us brand and market ourselves.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d been having trouble getting clients lately, and she had dinner with me and helped me come up with a ton of great ideas to better market myself.  She also had me think of the activities I like best, and focus on  those, in my profile on her web page.</p>
<p>It really sounds to me like me and Skyler are probably working for the best dungeon in the country. I think ours could be a model of what a commercial dungeon SHOULD be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eva Karlsen		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-168759</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eva Karlsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 07:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-168759</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-143970&quot;&gt;Miss Margo&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m an escort in Australia who communicates with a wide community of workers  - we are asked for fetish work a lot. I&#039;d say about a third of my genuine booking requests include some light fetish, mostly golden showers, spanking,, restraint or sub/dom role play. And I&#039;m a very vanilla escort.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-143970">Miss Margo</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an escort in Australia who communicates with a wide community of workers  &#8211; we are asked for fetish work a lot. I&#8217;d say about a third of my genuine booking requests include some light fetish, mostly golden showers, spanking,, restraint or sub/dom role play. And I&#8217;m a very vanilla escort.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paris lee		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-151432</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paris lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2014 13:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-151432</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-143970&quot;&gt;Miss Margo&lt;/a&gt;.

Hell I&#039;m a stripper and I&#039;ve done lots of ball busting and foot fetish work in the club!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-143970">Miss Margo</a>.</p>
<p>Hell I&#8217;m a stripper and I&#8217;ve done lots of ball busting and foot fetish work in the club!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cheyenne		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-150537</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cheyenne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-150537</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-148640&quot;&gt;Skyler&lt;/a&gt;.

Yours sounds like what mine was trying to be.  Seriously, the mission statement of the place I worked was pretty impressive.  I have many theories about what made it turn -- hell, it could have been as simple as not being able to make rent and starting to lose perspective.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-148640">Skyler</a>.</p>
<p>Yours sounds like what mine was trying to be.  Seriously, the mission statement of the place I worked was pretty impressive.  I have many theories about what made it turn &#8212; hell, it could have been as simple as not being able to make rent and starting to lose perspective.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cheyenne		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-150533</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cheyenne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-150533</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wanted to wait until I was awake and alert to reply to this thread.  Ever since making a film about my experience as a house switch, I&#039;ve been seriously struggling after each screening with this nagging thought that maybe, somehow, by making a film that shows the house experience as less than stellar (not all bad, but certainly more bad than good), I was doing something hurtful to the community.   

Part of this comes from the fact that when I set out to make the film, I had no idea that there *was* a SW activism community, or even that websites like this existed.  I certainly had never heard stories like the ones above.  My coworkers had a tendency to sugar coat the past, rebranding horrific experiences as &quot;no big&quot; and smiling as they were telling the stories.  (I have a scene in the movie that shows this.)

I think stories like these help people to not blame themselves for having bad experiences.  Thank you again for sharing.  

PS - My film is showing on Friday, August 15 at the Woodhull Sexual Freedom Summit at 4:45pm for anyone who may be there.  US screenings are rare right now, so if you&#039;re around, I&#039;d love to see you and hear responses.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to wait until I was awake and alert to reply to this thread.  Ever since making a film about my experience as a house switch, I&#8217;ve been seriously struggling after each screening with this nagging thought that maybe, somehow, by making a film that shows the house experience as less than stellar (not all bad, but certainly more bad than good), I was doing something hurtful to the community.   </p>
<p>Part of this comes from the fact that when I set out to make the film, I had no idea that there *was* a SW activism community, or even that websites like this existed.  I certainly had never heard stories like the ones above.  My coworkers had a tendency to sugar coat the past, rebranding horrific experiences as &#8220;no big&#8221; and smiling as they were telling the stories.  (I have a scene in the movie that shows this.)</p>
<p>I think stories like these help people to not blame themselves for having bad experiences.  Thank you again for sharing.  </p>
<p>PS &#8211; My film is showing on Friday, August 15 at the Woodhull Sexual Freedom Summit at 4:45pm for anyone who may be there.  US screenings are rare right now, so if you&#8217;re around, I&#8217;d love to see you and hear responses.</p>
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		<title>
		By: missmonochrome		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-148715</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[missmonochrome]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2014 00:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-148715</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Any house is only as good or as bad as the people running it. Unfortunately, in an unregulated industry, it leaves a lot of room for abuse, with all 99 problems of the standard vanilla freelancer/independent contractor (long hours, issues with timely pay, unsafe working conditions/practices etc.) with a special bonus side dish of whorephobia.

I&#039;ve had to fight my corner at both of the houses I&#039;ve ever worked to not do sessions I felt I could not do safely(e.g. sounds,heavy cutting) or not to see clients I&#039;ve found to be too impaired (either due to drugs or their own manias) to make informed decisions/respect limits.

I&#039;ve also taken some nasty management retaliation for advising a BRAND new Domme about clients who had a variety of unpleasant tendencies (octopus hands, cheating ladies out of their appropriate session rate, among other issues) so they could walk into the room informed, rather than be traumatized, cheated or assaulted by a man who makes a habit of seeing new girls for the specific purpose of exploiting their ignorance.

Given that I have always have had multiple income streams, not all of which are industry related, I have the leeway of picking my battles with management and weathering the resulting spite related income impact........not everyone has that option, particularly if sex work is their only current vocation]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any house is only as good or as bad as the people running it. Unfortunately, in an unregulated industry, it leaves a lot of room for abuse, with all 99 problems of the standard vanilla freelancer/independent contractor (long hours, issues with timely pay, unsafe working conditions/practices etc.) with a special bonus side dish of whorephobia.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had to fight my corner at both of the houses I&#8217;ve ever worked to not do sessions I felt I could not do safely(e.g. sounds,heavy cutting) or not to see clients I&#8217;ve found to be too impaired (either due to drugs or their own manias) to make informed decisions/respect limits.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also taken some nasty management retaliation for advising a BRAND new Domme about clients who had a variety of unpleasant tendencies (octopus hands, cheating ladies out of their appropriate session rate, among other issues) so they could walk into the room informed, rather than be traumatized, cheated or assaulted by a man who makes a habit of seeing new girls for the specific purpose of exploiting their ignorance.</p>
<p>Given that I have always have had multiple income streams, not all of which are industry related, I have the leeway of picking my battles with management and weathering the resulting spite related income impact&#8230;&#8230;..not everyone has that option, particularly if sex work is their only current vocation</p>
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		<title>
		By: Skyler		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-148640</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2014 22:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-148640</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This has been a depressing read. But not all commercial dungeons are horrible. At least not the one I have been working at a little over two years now. The owner is a woman who has worked as a pro domme the past 20 years and understands what it&#039;s like to be a pro domme. We never had rules like not being allowed to talk to other dommes on staff, or have phones on us or watch TV.  She has a huge Blacklist and we are never forced to see anyone we don&#039;t want to. And the pay cut she takes is a very tiny bit of the $250 domme session we charge. It&#039;s in our favor. And Sub/switch sessions are $300 and we get all the difference, she takes the same cut no matter what kind of session it is.
The only real down sides for me is still sitting in 3 days a week. Most guys book same day sessions or last minute sessions. I live an hour away so traveling 2 hours round trip and going home many days not making money is depressing. But we are allowed to film movies for our clips4sale stores in the empty rooms, or take nightflirt calls while we are there to make extra money and not waste the day.
Reading this makes me realize that my situation must be very very rare and I&#039;m lucky to work in a city with a place like this. I feel so bad that people feel unsafe or abused in their work. I wish I read that other people were having more positive experience&#039;s too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a depressing read. But not all commercial dungeons are horrible. At least not the one I have been working at a little over two years now. The owner is a woman who has worked as a pro domme the past 20 years and understands what it&#8217;s like to be a pro domme. We never had rules like not being allowed to talk to other dommes on staff, or have phones on us or watch TV.  She has a huge Blacklist and we are never forced to see anyone we don&#8217;t want to. And the pay cut she takes is a very tiny bit of the $250 domme session we charge. It&#8217;s in our favor. And Sub/switch sessions are $300 and we get all the difference, she takes the same cut no matter what kind of session it is.<br />
The only real down sides for me is still sitting in 3 days a week. Most guys book same day sessions or last minute sessions. I live an hour away so traveling 2 hours round trip and going home many days not making money is depressing. But we are allowed to film movies for our clips4sale stores in the empty rooms, or take nightflirt calls while we are there to make extra money and not waste the day.<br />
Reading this makes me realize that my situation must be very very rare and I&#8217;m lucky to work in a city with a place like this. I feel so bad that people feel unsafe or abused in their work. I wish I read that other people were having more positive experience&#8217;s too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Betty		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-147500</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Betty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2014 21:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-147500</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you so much for writing this.  As an experienced Pro-Dominant who&#039;s worked at a few of the aforementioned places, I truly appreciate you darlings speaking out publicly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much for writing this.  As an experienced Pro-Dominant who&#8217;s worked at a few of the aforementioned places, I truly appreciate you darlings speaking out publicly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lorrett		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/the-commercial-dungeon-experience-abusive-management-and-exploitation/#comment-146836</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lorrett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2014 04:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=17224#comment-146836</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This discussion makes me sad, because I know all these accounts are undoubtedly true. We&#039;re a playgroup in a small private home in California -- we do any kind of scene that&#039;s safe and legal -- and we&#039;re genuinely a family.  Hearing discussions like this makes me wish I were young enough, and ambitious enough, to want to go larger-scale, but I&#039;m not.  If you&#039;re curious, check out our website, and inquire about us on FetLife.  If you&#039;re in some other state and wish someone would create something like we have (we&#039;ve just celebrated our 24th anniversary), drop me a note and if you sound like our kind of folks, I&#039;ll find a way to encourage you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion makes me sad, because I know all these accounts are undoubtedly true. We&#8217;re a playgroup in a small private home in California &#8212; we do any kind of scene that&#8217;s safe and legal &#8212; and we&#8217;re genuinely a family.  Hearing discussions like this makes me wish I were young enough, and ambitious enough, to want to go larger-scale, but I&#8217;m not.  If you&#8217;re curious, check out our website, and inquire about us on FetLife.  If you&#8217;re in some other state and wish someone would create something like we have (we&#8217;ve just celebrated our 24th anniversary), drop me a note and if you sound like our kind of folks, I&#8217;ll find a way to encourage you.</p>
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