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	Comments on: An Open Letter From A Detroit Extras Girl	</title>
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	<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/</link>
	<description>By and about sex workers</description>
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		<title>
		By: Roger		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-1034832</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-1034832</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I never feel ashamed of offering extras because it doesn’t define me; it’s just one of my charms.&quot;

Article&#039;s link was posted on TUSCL and the above sentence is a rare quality that &quot;M&quot; has. 

Many women in the sex industry - strip clubs to call girls - carry an enormous guilt burden. And do stupid stuff to justify their job. Including ill-treating customers - their source of income. 

Off course the taboos around sex have been passed down for hundreds of years - and guys are to be blamed just as much.

There needs to be a way for sex lovers to have free access to abundant sex (for a price of course), just like food lovers, just like wine connoisseurs, just like golf nuts - and thousands of other recreational activities. 

It will start with us changing our mind-sets and people like &quot;M&quot; are leading this change.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I never feel ashamed of offering extras because it doesn’t define me; it’s just one of my charms.&#8221;</p>
<p>Article&#8217;s link was posted on TUSCL and the above sentence is a rare quality that &#8220;M&#8221; has. </p>
<p>Many women in the sex industry &#8211; strip clubs to call girls &#8211; carry an enormous guilt burden. And do stupid stuff to justify their job. Including ill-treating customers &#8211; their source of income. </p>
<p>Off course the taboos around sex have been passed down for hundreds of years &#8211; and guys are to be blamed just as much.</p>
<p>There needs to be a way for sex lovers to have free access to abundant sex (for a price of course), just like food lovers, just like wine connoisseurs, just like golf nuts &#8211; and thousands of other recreational activities. </p>
<p>It will start with us changing our mind-sets and people like &#8220;M&#8221; are leading this change.</p>
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		<title>
		By: coco		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-11735</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[coco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-11735</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6547&quot;&gt;M&lt;/a&gt;.

Is Francis an owner?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6547">M</a>.</p>
<p>Is Francis an owner?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fox		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 00:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I feel like this letter really reinforces my original thoughts about the letter to the extras girl, that the worst problem is undercutting rates.  It seems your club had a good system set up to keep you safe, to help you charge the rates you deserved, and be supported by staff and other dancers.  I am also happy to hear that when you worked in other states where extras were not the norm, you abided by their rules.  Really your experience seems positive to me, and while I don&#039;t want anyone offering extras in my club, I wouldn&#039;t work at your club in Detroit if I didn&#039;t want to offer extras.  I also think that your club and experience are not the national norm, and that extras are often under-charged and done in risky circumstances]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like this letter really reinforces my original thoughts about the letter to the extras girl, that the worst problem is undercutting rates.  It seems your club had a good system set up to keep you safe, to help you charge the rates you deserved, and be supported by staff and other dancers.  I am also happy to hear that when you worked in other states where extras were not the norm, you abided by their rules.  Really your experience seems positive to me, and while I don&#8217;t want anyone offering extras in my club, I wouldn&#8217;t work at your club in Detroit if I didn&#8217;t want to offer extras.  I also think that your club and experience are not the national norm, and that extras are often under-charged and done in risky circumstances</p>
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		<title>
		By: June		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[June]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you Evie!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Evie!</p>
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		<title>
		By: mistressmatisse		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6550</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mistressmatisse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 06:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6550</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Evie: YES. THIS. So much this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evie: YES. THIS. So much this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: M		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6547</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6547</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MC, I&#039;d be happy to answer your question. In Detroit, extras are very much the norm. As I described, rich and influential men frequent my home club. Also, I&#039;m quite sure the owner has paid off the police. As far as I know, vice has never raided the club. I never made any conscious decision as to who to solicit for extras. I never worry about it. Perhaps that&#039;s foolish but experience tells me otherwise. 

As far as escorting, I took most of my customers from the club with me. They recommend friends and colleagues so I don&#039;t do much in terms of screening because they are handed to me on a silver platter, so to speak.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MC, I&#8217;d be happy to answer your question. In Detroit, extras are very much the norm. As I described, rich and influential men frequent my home club. Also, I&#8217;m quite sure the owner has paid off the police. As far as I know, vice has never raided the club. I never made any conscious decision as to who to solicit for extras. I never worry about it. Perhaps that&#8217;s foolish but experience tells me otherwise. </p>
<p>As far as escorting, I took most of my customers from the club with me. They recommend friends and colleagues so I don&#8217;t do much in terms of screening because they are handed to me on a silver platter, so to speak.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Evie		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6545</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6545</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m seeing, here and in the comments on the original extras piece, a lot of misconceptions regarding law enforcement and strip clubs. Laws vary from state to state, but for the most part a sexual act does not need to be performed by a dancer to meet the threshold for arrest. In Pennsylvania, Nevada, and New York to name a few, you can be arrested for aggressively grinding, aka a lap dance, or solicitation which is defined as &quot;offering or implying,&quot; aka flirting without committing so as to get them in the damn VIP room. The undercover decides who to approach, based on whatever criteria he has: woman of color, acting intoxicated, thinks she&#039;s hot, etc. They have citations written out ahead of time, they call the local news to give them the heads up a stripper perp walk is about to take place. Maybe they know for sure the woman they choose offers extras, but it could easily be someone who doesn&#039;t because their tactics are straight up entrapment. Their goal is to make arrests, not search out who is actually giving extras. Anecdotal evidence: a friend, non-extras girl, who worked in Vegas was giving a lap dance, customer was aggressively making her grind harder, came in his pants and turned out to be... you guessed it, an undercover cop.

Clubs don&#039;t ge raided because of blowjobs, clubs get raided because law enforcement wants to punish people in the sex industry - especially lower-income workers. They look like they&#039;re &quot;cleaning up the community&quot; and the county gets to fine the club, the amount of which is probably water off a ducks back for ownership anyway. The women charged with prostitution? Once they have a record, their options for earning an income are severely constrained - possibly pushing them deeper into sex work. 

Police are the problem. Criminalization is the problem. NOT fellow working women.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m seeing, here and in the comments on the original extras piece, a lot of misconceptions regarding law enforcement and strip clubs. Laws vary from state to state, but for the most part a sexual act does not need to be performed by a dancer to meet the threshold for arrest. In Pennsylvania, Nevada, and New York to name a few, you can be arrested for aggressively grinding, aka a lap dance, or solicitation which is defined as &#8220;offering or implying,&#8221; aka flirting without committing so as to get them in the damn VIP room. The undercover decides who to approach, based on whatever criteria he has: woman of color, acting intoxicated, thinks she&#8217;s hot, etc. They have citations written out ahead of time, they call the local news to give them the heads up a stripper perp walk is about to take place. Maybe they know for sure the woman they choose offers extras, but it could easily be someone who doesn&#8217;t because their tactics are straight up entrapment. Their goal is to make arrests, not search out who is actually giving extras. Anecdotal evidence: a friend, non-extras girl, who worked in Vegas was giving a lap dance, customer was aggressively making her grind harder, came in his pants and turned out to be&#8230; you guessed it, an undercover cop.</p>
<p>Clubs don&#8217;t ge raided because of blowjobs, clubs get raided because law enforcement wants to punish people in the sex industry &#8211; especially lower-income workers. They look like they&#8217;re &#8220;cleaning up the community&#8221; and the county gets to fine the club, the amount of which is probably water off a ducks back for ownership anyway. The women charged with prostitution? Once they have a record, their options for earning an income are severely constrained &#8211; possibly pushing them deeper into sex work. </p>
<p>Police are the problem. Criminalization is the problem. NOT fellow working women.</p>
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		<title>
		By: OtroBaboso		</title>
		<link>https://titsandsass.com/an-open-letter-from-a-detroit-extras-girl/#comment-6539</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OtroBaboso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://titsandsass.com/?p=11747#comment-6539</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;A customer offered me $200 for a blowjob... Sex came soon after.&quot;

I understand what she&#039;s saying, but the idea that blowjobs aren&#039;t sex seems to me to be very odd.

If she can warn off the bouncers by leaving her shoes outside the door, the the club described by M has a policy of encouraging extras. It&#039;s not quite as clear in Josephine&#039;s description what her clubs&#039; policies are, but it does sound as if they also encourage, or at least tolerate, extras. It also sounds as if this is the norm in Detroit. Where policies are clear and regularly enforced, whether in support of extras or banning them, a stripper&#039;s choices are clear cut. It would be interesting to hear from people who work in clubs where the situation is more ambiguous: Either an area where some clubs do and some clubs don&#039;t enforce rules against extras, or a club where the managers are inconsistent about dealing with extras. As an example, managers who are uncomfortable about dealing with extras might go through periods where fear of the police cause them to enforce anti-extra rules stringently, followed by periods where their discomfort causes them to pretend extras aren&#039;t happening. If you know what the odds are of being caught and fired are, you can make rough estimates about whether it&#039;s worth it to provide extras. But it the odds of getting caught and fired change unpredictably, the decision is more difficult.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A customer offered me $200 for a blowjob&#8230; Sex came soon after.&#8221;</p>
<p>I understand what she&#8217;s saying, but the idea that blowjobs aren&#8217;t sex seems to me to be very odd.</p>
<p>If she can warn off the bouncers by leaving her shoes outside the door, the the club described by M has a policy of encouraging extras. It&#8217;s not quite as clear in Josephine&#8217;s description what her clubs&#8217; policies are, but it does sound as if they also encourage, or at least tolerate, extras. It also sounds as if this is the norm in Detroit. Where policies are clear and regularly enforced, whether in support of extras or banning them, a stripper&#8217;s choices are clear cut. It would be interesting to hear from people who work in clubs where the situation is more ambiguous: Either an area where some clubs do and some clubs don&#8217;t enforce rules against extras, or a club where the managers are inconsistent about dealing with extras. As an example, managers who are uncomfortable about dealing with extras might go through periods where fear of the police cause them to enforce anti-extra rules stringently, followed by periods where their discomfort causes them to pretend extras aren&#8217;t happening. If you know what the odds are of being caught and fired are, you can make rough estimates about whether it&#8217;s worth it to provide extras. But it the odds of getting caught and fired change unpredictably, the decision is more difficult.</p>
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